Events / Collaborator Summits for 2024

[mcollina]

In 2023, OpenJS World was colocated within Open Source Summit, reducing our "visibility" as a community, with only a few talks allocated to Node.js. Moreover, the collaborator summits were colocated with Open Source Summit.

Is this arrangement ok for us for 2024? Given that we have officially returned the Node.js Collaborator Summit title, I think we should be in the planning seat.

cc @ovflowd @ruyadorno @nodejs/tsc (please tag others).

[mcollina]

It's hard for me to justify spending time going to a place for a week if the conference/location is not tied to my startup, and I would not be going to Bilbao (despite my wanting to be there). I prefer the Node.js Collaborator Summit to be attached to a developer-focused conference.

[ovflowd]

Hmm, what's the ask here? I thought with nodejs/TSC#1399 we already agreed that the OpenJS Collaborator Summit is now Node.js Collaborator Summit. So there shouldn't be confusion regarding visibility, right?

Is the issue because we're being colocated on OpenJS World? I don't think this is a negative. If audience or visibility is the issue, well, we already announced as much as possible regarding the "Node.js Collaborator Summit" and, afaik we agreed that the summit is intentionally meant to have low attendance because it is meant for core collaborators?

It's hard for me to justify spending time going to a place for a week if the conference/location is not tied to my startup, and I would not be going to Bilbao (despite my wanting to be there). I prefer the Node.js Collaborator Summit to be attached to a developer-focused conference.

I don't understand this statement, and it sounds kind of a personal one. OpenJS World and Open Source Summit are Developer-focused Events, no? Why is it hard to justify attending Open Source Summit more than attending (I don't know, random example) NodeConf? Is it because Open Source Summit is a generic/diverse Developer conference, whereas NodeConf would be specialized in Node.js?

[tniessen]

Is it because Open Source Summit is a generic/diverse Developer conference, whereas NodeConf would be specialized in Node.js?

Yes, I believe that's it. We used to have conferences just about Node.js (which was great), then conferences about all of OpenJS (which was good), and now at Open Source Summit, Node.js seems more like an afterthought. When conferences had a strong focus on Node.js, they attracted not just users of Node.js but also Node.js collaborators, which made co-locating the conference and the collaborator summit attractive.

[ovflowd]

When conferences had a strong focus on Node.js, they attracted not just users of Node.js but also Node.js collaborators, which made co-locating the conference and the collaborator summit attractive.

That's fair.

[mcollina]

Hmm, what's the ask here?

The first point is that, because it's a Node.js Collaborator Summit, its organization should respond to the Node.js TSC and not the OpenJS CPC. It makes little sense to have a Node.js collab summit if the the TSC is not on board with dates/location.

Ultimately it's up to the Node.js TSC to propose some desiderata to the Foundation regarding this, as we did with the Node.js Collab Summit a long time ago.

Possible outcomes of this discussions are:

• we ask if it's possible to have a full track about the Node.js project at Conf X
• we ask to colocate with a LF event (like 2022)
• we ask to colocate our collab summit at other events, possibly renting a venue for us

[ovflowd]

The first point is that, because it's a Node.js Collaborator Summit, its organization should respond to the Node.js TSC and not the OpenJS CPC. It makes little sense to have a Node.js collab summit if the the TSC is not on board with dates/location.

If that's the case, I don't have any say here. I would only humbly add these points:

• The current model was done due to resources and cost. Apparently, OpenJS having their own event was too costly to maintain, and being co-located with other LF events genuinely feels like a fair alternative.
• Why is Node.js so important that it deserves more attention than other projects? In the grand scheme of things, how important is Node.js that it should have its own track on Open Source Summit, for example? (Just food for thought, as I'm not the right person to answer this question)
• Which other events would be appropriate to host a Node.js Collab Summit, since the nature of the Collab Summit is an official event of the project, what are the requirements here?

I understand that the TSC should have a say here; I also recall that the TSC was fine -- once we migrated the OpenJS Collab Summit to the Node.js Collab Summit -- that I could still keep organizing the current one for Bilbao due to event being already too close and it was already being organised. But I wonder what's the future then? What sort of participation would the CPC or the Foundation have here, and how can we provide smooth sailing for the future?

I'm fine with whatever the TSC decides (not that what I think really matters), but I wonder, is this sort of change really needed? I genuinely had a good blast this last Collab Summit (2023 Vancouver) and I believe the Bilbao one might be even more fine-tuned, but ultimately I'm (and I assume the CPC and the Foundation) are here to listen, and understand your needs.

[joyeecheung]

I personally would prefer a Node.js collaboration summit co-located with a Node.js conference, and my impression is that I am not alone in this. If a (1-day) Node.js collaboration summit is co-located with a more generic multi-day conference, it’s harder to justify the travel, especially for those who have to fly >10+ hours to be there. If it’s a Node.js collaboration summit co-located with a Node.js conference, flying > 10+ hours to attend a multi-day Node.js thing is more justifiable, so it would be easier to gather more Node.js collaborators in the same room that way. Previously when we had the annual Node.js conferences, we also had an opportunity to gather a lot of Node.js collaborators in the same place and have interesting conversations in the co-located summit, and sometimes we even had TSC quorum in the same room. With the current set up though I think it is becoming harder to see TSC quorum in the same room again. Not saying we should be doing any changes to the upcoming summit, but I agree that it’s something we should think about for the next year.

[mcollina]

The current model was done due to resources and cost. Apparently, OpenJS having their own event was too costly to maintain, and being co-located with other LF events genuinely feels like a fair alternative.

Agreed! I was in the (board)room when this decision was made, and it's the most sensible one.
Putting my Node.js TSC hat on, this arrangement does not work for Node.js, and plenty of collaborators shared the same point of view.
Maybe it's just my echo chamber, but if this is the majority of us, we should communicate this so we are better supported in 2024.

Why is Node.js so important that it deserves more attention than other projects? In the grand scheme of things, how important is Node.js that it should have its own track on Open Source Summit, for example? (Just food for thought, as I'm not the right person to answer this question)

@ovflowd let me recap the level of support Node.js used to have across the years. At the beginning of the Node.js Foundation, the event was called Node.js Interactive. It was a 2/3 track multiday event, we used to have space to host Node.js Code&Learn there to teach people how to contribute to Node.js, and it was a great experience. You can watch the videos from the event in Portland of 2015 at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O28Knn00qYo&list=PLfMzBWSH11xYjL8oFumSfzOf6-kr8_t-o&pp=iAQB. The same level of support was done up to 2022.

(I was onboarded as a Node.js collaborator in person at the event in Portland in 2015).

Which other events would be appropriate to host a Node.js Collab Summit, since the nature of the Collab Summit is an official event of the project, what are the requirements here?

In the past, we have attached our events to JSConf.eu and NodeConf.eu. I suspect we can find quite a few good options on this topic with friendly organizers to help us promote (JSNation, NodeCongress, NodeConf.eu, CityJS, React Miami, .
This requires more work for the organization volunteers: we begged for a cheap location to host us multiple times. In the past, we have been hosted by Mozilla, IBM, Google, and possibly a few others.

[ovflowd]

I personally would prefer a Node.js collaboration summit co-located with a Node.js conference, and my impression is that I am not alone in this. If a (1-day) Node.js collaboration summit is co-located with a more generic multi-day conference, it’s harder to justify the travel, especially for those who have to fly >10+ hours to be there. If it’s a Node.js collaboration summit co-located with a Node.js conference, flying > 10+ hours to attend a multi-day Node.js thing is more justifiable, so it would be easier to gather more Node.js collaborators in the same room that way.

That is 100% a fair and a convincing reason, and that makes sense. If that's the ask, then it does make sense to the Collab Summit to be hosted on an Event that is more Node.js/JavaScript focused.

[joyeecheung]

Also, I think it does not even have to be a Node.js-specific conference, it's just better to co-locate the summit to a conference that can attract contributors to Node.js and closely related upstream/downstream projects (Electron, V8, even TC39/WHATWG/W3C etc.) on its own - in that past the summit co-located with JSConf EU also worked very well because of this. While the whole concept of the Open Source Summit is still relatively new to me, based on what I learn from others, to the kind of contributors mentioned before, it's at least not yet as attractive on its own as some of the non-official conferences out there. I think the best thing we can do to make the collaboration summit more successful is to co-locate it with the conferences that can attract the most contributors in the ecosystems around Node.js on its own, which may or may not include the Open Source Summit, but that can also change as time goes by.

[ovflowd]

Agreed! I was in the (board)room when this decision was made, and it's the most sensible one.
Putting my Node.js TSC hat on, this arrangement does not work for Node.js, and plenty of collaborators shared the same point of view.
Maybe it's just my echo chamber, but if this is the majority of us, we should communicate this so we are better supported in 2024

I hear you. We might need to find more funding, regardless of where the Event is hosted.

This requires more work for the organization volunteers: we begged for a cheap location to host us multiple times. In the past, we have been hosted by Mozilla, IBM, Google, and possibly a few others.

It saddens me that we need to beg for big corporations that rely on us to give us a space.

[ovflowd]

I think the best thing we can do to make the collaboration summit more successful is to co-locate it with the conferences that can attract the most contributors in the ecosystems around Node.js on its own, which may or may not include the Open Source Summit, but that can also change as time goes by.

Then the intent is for the summit to be open for non-collaborators, or is the expectancy to be able to gather more current collaborators? I understand that previous events were successful in this model, but that was a pre-pandemic situation.

Are we confident that if we decide on a different model, that we'd actually get those collaborators (I understand that you and Matteo would definitely be a yes, but how confident are we on this?)

[mcollina]

Are we confident that if we decide on a different model, that we'd actually get those collaborators (I understand that you and Matteo would definitely be a yes, but how confident are we on this?)

This is the reason why I opened the issue, I'm asking what everybody thinks.

[ovflowd]

Are we confident that if we decide on a different model, that we'd actually get those collaborators (I understand that you and Matteo would definitely be a yes, but how confident are we on this?)

This is the reason why I opened the issue, I'm asking what everybody thinks.

Gotcha, I apologise for my excessive questioning. This is all new to me, and I just want to better understand the situation. (I guess my questions might also be relevant for outsiders and other collaborators unfamiliar of these concerns) 🙇

[joyeecheung]

From my past experience, if X Node.js collaborators are going to a conference already, chances are >90% of them would also show up at the co-located Node.js collaboration summit (as long as it's not on short notice, of course). The more Node.js-specific the conference is (if we are comparing conferences on a similar scale), the more Node.js collaborators would show up in the co-located summit. An interest survey about what kind of setup is more attractive to our collaborators might be useful to get more insights into this.